Curse

Mist Walker Skarloc · Nov 07, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Why does my friend not accept the fact that Ritualists do not suck at all? She constantly complains about Ritualists (well, and Mesmers) being bad, even after being completely pwnt by Splinter Weapon and Ancestor's Rage in GvG. If a Mesmer or Ritualist joins the team, we tell them to play something else or she throws a hissy fit.

Is my friend suffering from one or more mental illnesses, or is she simply a noob? What do I do to make her realise that Mesmers and Ritualists have roles that they fulfill incredibly well?

horseradish · Nov 07, 2007, 09:12 PM // 21:12

well....if she ain't takin' any medication, i'd say she's an idiot.

silentman · Nov 07, 2007, 09:20 PM // 21:20

well, mesmers and rits are hard to play. people who don't know how to play them well, say they are sucks

Winterclaw · Nov 07, 2007, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Mesmers are bad if they go up against something their skill bar can't handle. If they have the right skill bar for the job and know how to play, they can really make a difference.

Rits can be good too. Restoration rits are good healers and channeling has a lot of useful spells in it. Your friend really doesn't know what she is talking about.

Ensign · Nov 07, 2007, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Rits are hard to play? Are you kidding me? Push the Splinter Weapon button on recharge. Done, you're a competent Ritualist. Anything you do beyond that is a bonus.

Dr Strangelove · Nov 07, 2007, 11:22 PM // 23:22

The only reason rits are hard to play is that you have to wade through a pile of shitty skills to find the good ones.

Cobalt · Nov 07, 2007, 11:53 PM // 23:53

The only reason Rits are hard and is the only time anyone wants you in their group is to heal and Rits are not monks so it can be tough to try and heal at a monks level.

The only reason people think Rits suck is they are always stuck healing which again they can't do as well a a monk thus never get to open a can of whoopass, something they can do.

If a Rit lays out 3 offensive spirits, 2 defensive, and tosses weapon spells on tanks, while doing some wanding they can account for some serious DPS while negating some as well.

Oso Minar · Nov 08, 2007, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobalt

they can't do as well a a monk

Lies.

And OP, your friend is a very sheltered idiot.

Omniclasm · Nov 08, 2007, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Your friend is a noob. Noobs only like Warriors, Elementalists, and Monks, and everything else is inferior. While, the truth is almost the exact opposite, at least in normal PvE.

Mist Walker Skarloc · Nov 08, 2007, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Thanks for the replies all. Silentman, I told her she hates them because she doesn't like playing either of them. Apparantly, it's because whatever a Mesmer or Rit can do, another profession can do better. I see a lot of E/Me's using MoR+Diversion, y'know.

Even after taking about 5000000 damage from Splinter Weapon on a couple of Dervs (well, more than their scythes did anyway) she still believe they don't do enough damage. She'd rather take a fire Elementalist in either format of play.

Healing Monks are also apparantly better than Resto Rits. I may be mistaken, but isn't Healing Prayers underpowered, at least in PvP? Whereas Restoration is loaded with cheap, efficient heals on short recharges (although only 2 of them will easily suffice in a build) as well as WoWarding and other unstrippable buffs. The Rit can also pack some Channeling, such as Warmonger's and Splinter Weapon to give frontliners a boost.

PvP and PvE are different, but surely, if she has People Know Me, she must have at least some idea in PvP... right?

wetsparks · Nov 08, 2007, 08:22 AM // 08:22

I doubt she has a clue at all. Rits can out heal a monk fairly easily, as you mentioned. Monks need to protect, to prevent damage from being taken. You know what I have seen lately? (not in "real" pvp but alliance battles and general pve) I've seen a lot of mesmers with ele secondaries, fast casting eles pretty much. I guess by your friends standards eles suck because people can play as them with their secondary profession. People also used to play rt/n minion masters, I guess that means necros are worthless because a rit can do that. And people also do me/n spiteful spirit builds, again for fast casting, another reason why we don't need necros right? Your friend is a noob, let her keep playing as a healing hands, mending, healing breeze, vigorous spirit, live vicariously warrior. maybe she will learn someday.

bungusmaximus · Nov 08, 2007, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by wetsparks

I doubt she has a clue at all. Rits can out heal a monk fairly easily, as you mentioned.

That would be true if LoD didn't exist, really. But rit solo-heals are already retardedly good at very low spec, so you have a point.

To the OP, your friend should l2p, to put it bluntly. Every class has it's use in PvE when played right.

The mesmers niche lies in blowing up pesky bosses and the rit, well, the rit blows up stuff without annoying aggro scatter, need I say more?

Mist Walker Skarloc · Nov 08, 2007, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

To the OP, your friend should l2p, to put it bluntly.

I agree, to be honest. I'd rather not tell her, though. :P

Wetsparks, from her point of view, Eles are good even though Me/Es can play their role. Ele primary has more than 12 Fire Magic, and so does more damage. Rt/N MMs don't exist, Rt primary is useless.

She's not a typical HH, Breeze and Orison Wammo. She plays her profession well, she just doesn't have a clue about those she doens't play. Anyone got any ideas as to how I could get her to recognise the uses of Ritualists and Mesmers? I can't explain Mesmers well since I don't play one, but even after being slapped in the face by SW+AR, she still refuses to acknowledge Ritualists as a good profession.

Is she a lost cause, or is there hope of getting her to see the (Spirit) Light?

EDIT: Now I think about it, she's not a good a warrior as I thought. She doesn't use Dragon Slash!

Amalek · Nov 08, 2007, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mist Walker Skarloc

PvP and PvE are different, but surely, if she has People Know Me, she must have at least some idea in PvP... right?

haha what? really?

Painbringer · Nov 08, 2007, 06:23 PM // 18:23

She is blinded by uberness

Let here try and solo the Bogroot Dungeon Ritualist then tell you they suck. If a good build is used you can a lot. You can solo Sins, Warriors, and Dervs all with a sword and shield

. Or you can be a caster. Or a healer. And still poop a spirit here and there. You are the jack of trades.

Mesmer’s are the Tricksters of GW. Who pisses you off the most when you PVE the healer that heals your target over and over or the Mesmer that keeps interrupting you attacks and skill chains? They are the ones that keep constant degeneration on you / stealing all the energy and adrenaline you have? Personally the Mesmer seems to piss me off the most.

My 2 cents

Pain

Sir Pandra Pierva · Nov 08, 2007, 08:02 PM // 20:02

She plays ele main, she probolly doesn't like mes cause they pissed her off<_<

I know I hate to fight good mes players. Stupid interupts.......
But if not then she is a noob. one of the first things you learn in PVP is MES'S ARE ANNOYING

Qdq Swi · Nov 08, 2007, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mist Walker Skarloc

Why does my friend not accept the fact that Ritualists do not suck at all? She constantly complains about Ritualists (well, and Mesmers) being bad, even after being completely pwnt by Splinter Weapon and Ancestor's Rage in GvG. If a Mesmer or Ritualist joins the team, we tell them to play something else or she throws a hissy fit.

Is my friend suffering from one or more mental illnesses, or is she simply a noob? What do I do to make her realise that Mesmers and Ritualists have roles that they fulfill incredibly well?

Ok... a) Mesmers are the best class for PvP.
b) Shes either stupid or ignorant.
c) Its just cus shes jealous and cant use any of the harder classes.
d) She just doesnt like being owned by the classes she hates...

But all them kinda stuff are pretty normal :P. Ive got bad feelings about paragons cus I think theyr utterly useless articles... But hey.. even I (the stern, arrogant egoist) has to admit that paras 'Can' be useful in teams.

The Meth · Nov 08, 2007, 09:26 PM // 21:26

In PvE mesmers really don't have a chance to shine, since E-denial is useless, shutdown is either never needed or only needed for 1 boss, and interrupts are usually better done by ranger anyway.

Ritualists suffer from the problem of being a class that isn't well understood by most pugs.

Monks, warriors and such are so widely used that most players can identify a good monk build for a bad monk build in a second. Rits, mesmers, paragons have the problem that most party leaders just don't know what the hell is a good build for them, so they would rather take a chance with something assured like another ele.

Also, in most cases a pug group aims for this: 1-2 'tanks' (I really hate the word tank, but its what they use), 2 monks, 2-3 nukers. The problem with integrating a Rit (or other 'undesirables') into these groups is that when forming a pug you want to get people and go. Most parties will just take 2 monks and hope it works, they don't want to waste 30 mins figuring out whether 1 monk + 1 rit + 1 para can be better then 2 monk + 1 ele, they want to just take 2 monks and 1 ele and get through the map. They don't want to risk their group on a random rit who says "Hey I can heal as well as a monk while dealing lots of damage too" because it's a pug, and you can't trust other people.

On the other hand, if anyone pretending to be 'experienced' says a class outright sucks, they are definitely pretty high on the noob list. More so after being beaten by said class, thats pushing the limits of stupidity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mist Walker Skarloc

PvP and PvE are different, but surely, if she has People Know Me, she must have at least some idea in PvP... right?

Not really, fact is unless you are in hard mode PvE is so easy you don't even need a skill set, henchmen alone can beat it. OTOH, if you are a vanquisher or guardian you know enough about skills I think to be a passable PvP player. Of course that doesn't hold true now that we have ursan form.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Rits are hard to play? Are you kidding me? Push the Splinter Weapon button on recharge. Done, you're a competent Ritualist. Anything you do beyond that is a bonus.

Anyone can be 'competent' very easily. A competent monk is one who just looks at health bars and makes em go up. A competent ele spams the biggest fire skill they can find. But a 'good' or 'great' player will go beyond that in all classes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdq Swi

But all them kinda stuff are pretty normal :P. Ive got bad feelings about paragons cus I think theyr utterly useless articles... But hey.. even I (the stern, arrogant egoist) has to admit that paras 'Can' be useful in teams.

Not sure if thats a bit of sarcasm I'm detecting, but just in case any random clueless people are reading: There is a reason that nearly EVERY major skill change has been nerfing paragons, and yet they are still pwning things in full para groups in high level PvP, and would be in PvE if you can find more then 1 in an outpost at a time.

Ensign · Nov 08, 2007, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

In PvE mesmers really don't have a chance to shine

Between Hex Eater Vortex and Signet of Illusions, I really couldn't disagree more. A competently played Mesmer in PvE can be a very strong character. The addition of PvE skills to the game has really powered up some of the more marginal characters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Anyone can be 'competent' very easily. A competent monk is one who just looks at health bars and makes em go up. A competent ele spams the biggest fire skill they can find. But a 'good' or 'great' player will go beyond that in all classes.

The bar is lower for Ritualists than any other profession in PvE. Splinter Weapon on recharge is easily the best play a Ritualist can make in PvE; it's by far the easiest core competency in the game. The best plays available to other professions are more complicated, though pushing LoD on recharge is pretty close. Sure a good player would do more, but my expectations on a Rit are lowest.

If I grabbed a pickup Ritualist and he clicked me a bar with Splinter Weapon, Ressig, and no other skills, I would seriously consider keeping him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

would be in PvE if you can find more then 1 in an outpost at a time.

Single and dual Paragons are fine in PvE; the first player Paragon is easily the best one since their best skills don't stack. You don't see them invited to groups in PvE because the expectation is that the Paragon player is bad, and it is likely the group doing the inviting is bad as well. They don't know what a good Paragon would look like, but the one they would get probably isn't one either, so it all balances out.

The Meth · Nov 09, 2007, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Between Hex Eater Vortex and Signet of Illusions, I really couldn't disagree more. A competently played Mesmer in PvE can be a very strong character. The addition of PvE skills to the game has really powered up some of the more marginal characters.

Good job cutting off the rest of the quote there lol. What I was saying is that mesmer is the only profession of which some of its roles are made 99.9% useless in pve. PvE skills are 'da bomb'. I tried loading 8 people with cry of pain and arcane echo. Things die like in pre-searing. HEV would definitely be great if I could find an enemy who would actually use enchantments I needed to remove.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

The bar is lower for Ritualists than any other profession in PvE. Splinter Weapon on recharge is easily the best play a Ritualist can make in PvE; it's by far the easiest core competency in the game. The best plays available to other professions are more complicated, though pushing LoD on recharge is pretty close. Sure a good player would do more, but my expectations on a Rit are lowest.

Not gonna argue with splinter weapon being awesome, unfortunately looks like its getting nerfed! I might have taken a rit with nothing but splinter weapon just to prove a point

. So-called 'tanking' in PvE I would place below rits though, they just block enemies on a corner, then there are MM's which hit 1 or 2 every time something dies, hitting 3 whenever they feel like it. Then there are...its really all subjective I think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Single and dual Paragons are fine in PvE; the first player Paragon is easily the best one since their best skills don't stack. You don't see them invited to groups in PvE because the expectation is that the Paragon player is bad, and it is likely the group doing the inviting is bad as well. They don't know what a good Paragon would look like, but the one they would get probably isn't one either, so it all balances out.

When I said that I meant the game-exploitingly overpowering builds that use multiple (3+) paragons in a team and have defence and offense to rival Balthazar himself. I didn't mean to imply that paragons alone were bad, quite the opposite, I just meant that alone you don't get to see the true overpoweredness that they have. At least certain paragon skills are overpowered to the point where H/H anything is a breeze.
I will agree that there are too many bad paragons (and mesmers, and of other classes) which really ends up giving the class a bad name when there aren't enough good people playing to even it out. Let me quote myself:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Monks, warriors and such are so widely used that most players can identify a good monk build for a bad monk build in a second. Rits, mesmers, paragons have the problem that most party leaders just don't know what the hell is a good build for them, so they would rather take a chance with something assured like another ele.